Author Topic: Agnosticism  (Read 1740 times)

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Offline Salem

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Agnosticism
« on: March 25, 2006, 10:57:28 PM »
There are a few agnostics here on AVN, some have made their beliefs public, and some have those beliefs but they haven't started referring to themselves as agnostics yet, and I noticed recently one or two ignorant remarks by some members towards those members and their beliefs, so I thought a thread that explains such a belief is needed.


Definition

Wikepedia defines Agnosticism as the philosophical view that the truth or falsity of certain claims—particularly theological claims regarding the existence of God or gods—is unknown, unknowable, or incoherent. Some agnostics infer from this that these claims are irrelevant to life.

The term and the related agnostic were coined by Thomas Henry Huxley in 1869, and are also used to describe those who are unconvinced or noncommittal about the existence of deities as well as other matters of religion. The word agnostic comes from the Greek a (without) and gnosis (knowledge). Agnosticism, focusing on what can be known, is an epistemological position (dealing with the nature and limits of human knowledge); while atheism and theism are ontological positions (a branch of metaphysics that deals with what types of entities exist). Agnosticism is not to be confused with a view specifically opposing the doctrine of gnosis and Gnosticism—these are religious concepts that are not generally related to agnosticism.

Agnosticism is distinct from strong atheism (also called positive atheism or dogmatic atheism), which denies the existence of any deities. However, the more general variety of atheism, weak atheism (also called negative atheism, and sometimes neutral atheism), professes only a lack of belief in a god or gods, which is not equivalent to but is compatible with agnosticism. Critical atheism admits that a god or gods are meaningful concepts but the evidence for them is not in hand, so a default position of not believing in them must be taken in the interim.

Agnostics may claim that it isn't possible to have absolute or certain spiritual knowledge or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no such knowledge. In both cases, agnosticism involves some form of skepticism towards religious statements. This is different from the simple irreligion of those who give no thought to the subject.


Variations

Agnosticism has suffered more than most expressions of philosophical position from terminological vagaries. Data collection services [1], [2] often display the common use of the term, distinct from strong atheism in its lack of disputing the existence of deities. Agnostics are listed alongside secular, non-religious, or other such categories.

Other variations include:

  • Strong agnosticism (also called hard agnosticism, closed agnosticism, strict agnosticism, absolute agnosticism)—the view that the question of the existence of deities is unknowable by nature or that human beings are ill-equipped to judge the evidence.
  • Weak agnosticism (also called soft agnosticism, open agnosticism, empirical agnosticism, temporal agnosticism)—the view that the existence or nonexistence of God or gods is currently unknown but isn't necessarily unknowable, therefore one will withhold judgment until more evidence is available.
  • Apathetic agnosticism—the view that there is no proof either of God's existence or nonexistence, but since God (if there is one) appears unconcerned for the universe or the welfare of its inhabitants, the question is largely academic.
  • Ignosticism—the view that the concept of God as a being is meaningless because it has no verifiable consequences, therefore it cannot be usefully discussed as having existence or nonexistence. See scientific method.
  • Model agnosticism—the view that philosophical and metaphysical questions are not ultimately verifiable but that a model of malleable assumption should be built upon rational thought. This branch of agnosticism does not focus on a deity's existence.
  • Agnostic theism—the view of those who do not claim to know God's existence, but still believe in his existence. (See Knowledge Vs Beliefs) Whether this is truly agnosticism is disputed. It may also imply the belief that although there is something that resembles (or would at least appear to us as) a god (or gods,) there remains doubt over their true nature, motives, or the validity of the claim to be 'God' rather than superior, supernatural being(s).
  • Agnostic spiritualism—the view that there may or may not be a god (or gods,) while maintaining a general personal belief in a spiritual aspect of reality, particularly without distinct religious basis, or adherence to any established doctrine or dogma.
  • Agnostic atheism—the view that God may or may not exist, but that his non-existence is more likely. Some agnostic atheists would at least partially base their beliefs on Occam's Razor.


Salem




Offline Cascade

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Re: Agnosticism
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2015, 11:59:30 PM »
I believe I am a strong Agnostic.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Assyrian Nationalist

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Re: Agnosticism
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2015, 12:52:10 AM »
I believe I am a strong Agnostic.

Agnosticism is a stupid belief in my opinion.

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Re: Agnosticism
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2015, 12:52:10 AM »

Offline Cascade

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Re: Agnosticism
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2015, 04:34:24 AM »
Agnosticism is a stupid belief in my opinion.
Do you even know what Agnosticism means? It's a rather broad "belief" system.

Look at the variations that the OP has put. I'm sure you would undoubtedly fall under ONE of them.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 04:35:06 AM by Neon »
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Assyrian Nationalist

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Re: Agnosticism
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2015, 05:47:04 AM »
Do you even know what Agnosticism means? It's a rather broad "belief" system.

Look at the variations that the OP has put. I'm sure you would undoubtedly fall under ONE of them.

As I said before I'm an Atheist Christian I don't believe in god AT ALL I doubt his existence.

Offline Cascade

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Re: Agnosticism
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2015, 08:11:01 AM »
As I said before I'm an Atheist Christian I don't believe in god AT ALL I doubt his existence.
Atheistic Christians believe in Jesus words, but not the supernatural part. I doubt that you believe in Jesus's teachings? Btw, many people think "Christian atheism" is a huge oxymoron and its adherents are fencesitters.

What "his" existence? Remember it isn't just the biblical god that we don't believe in, but also deistic god(s) or any other higher power. And we can't be 100% sure that they do not exist (nor exist, for that matter).
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 08:14:30 AM by Neon »
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Assyrian Nationalist

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Re: Agnosticism
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2015, 03:51:25 PM »
Atheistic Christians believe in Jesus words, but not the supernatural part. I doubt that you believe in Jesus's teachings? Btw, many people think "Christian atheism" is a huge oxymoron and its adherents are fencesitters.

What "his" existence? Remember it isn't just the biblical god that we don't believe in, but also deistic god(s) or any other higher power. And we can't be 100% sure that they do not exist (nor exist, for that matter).

What about people who call themselves Jewish Atheists, is that an oxymoron? or Indians who call themselves Hindu Atheists? Is that an oxymoron?....

Offline Cascade

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Re: Agnosticism
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2015, 06:59:11 PM »
What about people who call themselves Jewish Atheists, is that an oxymoron? or Indians who call themselves Hindu Atheists? Is that an oxymoron?....
Jews are not only a religious group, but an ethnicity.

Yes, Hindu atheist is an oxymoron. Actually, it's MORE of an oxymoron since they believe in a thousand gods.

With that being said you can be an atheist and a "cultural" Christian, Hindu, Jew, etc. You can attend mass (for their music or socializing) but not really believe in anything they say.
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

Offline Googoo

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Re: Agnosticism
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2015, 06:58:18 PM »
Agnostic theism—the view of those who do not claim to know God's existence, but still believe in his existence. (See Knowledge Vs Beliefs) Whether this is truly agnosticism is disputed. It may also imply the belief that although there is something that resembles (or would at least appear to us as) a god (or gods,) there remains doubt over their true nature, motives, or the validity of the claim to be 'God' rather than superior, supernatural being(s).
Agnostic spiritualism—the view that there may or may not be a god (or gods,) while maintaining a general personal belief in a spiritual aspect of reality, particularly without distinct religious basis, or adherence to any established doctrine or dogma


I probably fall in one of the two. I lived in such a multifaith/multicultural neighbourhood so I kind of believe in every Religion. ( I lived with Abrahamic followers, Hindus, Bahai's, Sikhs and Zoroastrians).

I agree with the good elements that they all preach i.e. Do good and disagree with others i.e. Some preachings/Laws are too outdated so they need to interpret it according to the year we're living in.

And don't laugh but I love to hear stories that sound almost too UNREAL  :blush2: :blush2:

So, I do believe in the existence of god but it's sort of spiritual for me? I'm culturally more Abrahamic though i.e. I celebrate Eid, fast Ramadan, I don't eat meat in January (It's a christian thing in Portugal lol) and I celebrate Christmas 

Offline Cascade

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Re: Agnosticism
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2016, 01:42:15 AM »
So, I do believe in the existence of god but it's sort of spiritual for me? I'm culturally more Abrahamic though i.e. I celebrate Eid, fast Ramadan, I don't eat meat in January (It's a christian thing in Portugal lol) and I celebrate Christmas 
So are you like, a Christian Muslim? Are you more or less of the other?
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. - Charles Darwin

 

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