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Offline sydneydude

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mar bawai discussion in chicago
« on: January 09, 2006, 07:44:45 AM »
this was a discussion forum held where His Grace answered many questions from the faithful in Chicago...anybody who is curious and has questions regarding current events is strongly encouraged to watch this.

i hope its fruitful and you enjoy it

God Bless

click here to watch the video



Offline BroonitBeita

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mar bawai discussion in chicago
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2006, 01:09:34 AM »
i dedicated 45 minutes to watch this clip and found it to be nothing more than hollow words.

as to the questions that he answered, they were not included. only his speech was included. it seemed to end before there was any questions asked.

in this speech, with fanciful words, he makes his intentions clear about "full communioun" with the roman Church. full communioun, unlike what Mar Bawai claims, does mean the acceptance of papal authority.

in this speech, Mar Bawai admits that he has been stopped, yet he continues to perform his duties??? how is that so?

he speaks of having full respect for His Holiness, yet that is contrary to his letters, in which he attacks His Holiness' leadership and character. even daring to suggest that His Holiness has taken Christ out of the Church. is that respect?

it is not my intention to attack the roman Church, but Mar Bawai claims that only one percent of roman priests were caught in sexual misconduct.

According to a survey of diocesan files commissioned by the U.S. bishops, allegations of sexual abuse have been made in the last 50 years against 4,392 priests. The number is generally believed to underestimate the problem. Some bishops have released the names of accused priests, but no official list exists of priests who have abused children and vulnerable adults. Below we present the most complete list currently available, culled from media reports and legal documents.

please visit: http://www.bishop-accountability.org/

he speaks of accountability, and transperency, let us wait and see how accountable and transperent he has been with his diocese when matters come to light at the forthcoming court proceedings.

he mentions that the roman Church has so much of our books in the vatican, and that he has been enlightened by studying them, yet he fails to mention HOW they came to posses these books. was it not by murder, pillage and deliberate conquest?? why does he fail to mention this fact??

he claims that he faced opposition when trying to convince the Synod to translate the Raza into modern Assyrian for the people to understand. and that the Synod did not accept that.  Yet he fails to mention that this was agreed upon, and that scholars of the COE have been assigned to this task, which include Mar Meelis.  they have been working on it for some time, though it looks like this work will be on the back burner for a while due to a court case.
and again he fails to mention that the COE has given the go ahead to perform the Raza in english, in more than one city, not just sydney. is that not "khoodata"???

there are many other points, but i think that this will suffice.

in closing, i would like to say, dont just listen, but consider carefully what you hear, for many things will be disclosed, Mar Bawai is not a martyr persecuted for his admirable ideas by an unrighteous (khaslee) synod. that is not the case.

Mark 4:22-24  For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open.  If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."   "Consider carefully what you hear," he continued. "With the measure you use, it will be measured to you--and even more.

Offline sydneydude

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mar bawai discussion in chicago
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2006, 01:26:32 AM »
my dear critic, broonit beita...what better oportunity for you to further criticise and, as usual you took the whole message being discussed out of context.

now you mentioned
Quote
allegations of sexual abuse have been made in the last 50 years against 4,392 priests
well according to simple mathematics, thats about 88 priests a year on average...88 out of the thousands and thousands that are out there. you just showed me that even 1% is an overstatement...according to nothing else but your numbers.

lets now try and look at the number of our prietss that have been involved in immoral acts...we have a bishop (mar aprim), we have a priest in melbourne which was summond by mar meelis, we have others in europe and a couple in iraq...without even counting i can assure you that our rate is much larger than 1%!

so before you start pointing fingers at our other Christian brothers, look at yourself first and put things in perspective. you also fail to acknowledge that the catholics atleast have a system of investitgation and accountability, unlike ours where things are just swept under the carpet.

you call Mar Meelis a scholar...can you please tell me how he qualified to be a scholar. by definition a scholar is someone who by long study has gained mastery in one or more disciplines...long study??? one or more disciplines??? sounds more like Mar Bawai to me.

Quote
he speaks of having full respect for His Holiness, yet that is contrary to his letters, in which he attacks His Holiness' leadership and character


he never attacked anybody, he questioned certain decisions...going by your definition the apostle Paul must have attacked Peter in Galatians Chapter 2...wow! thats a big call. ill need to run that past a Scholar to double check its creditability.

Quote
he mentions that the roman Church has so much of our books in the vatican, and that he has been enlightened by studying them, yet he fails to mention HOW they came to posses these books. was it not by murder, pillage and deliberate conquest?? why does he fail to mention this fact??


because this is not fruitful discussion. this does not benefit our salvation to bring hatred into our heart and talk about past sins that we have committed against eachother. what good is it to mention these things? does it help me get closer to Christ?? the job of a bishop is to preach love and unity within the Church, not to bring revenge within us...i dont blame you for forgetting this point since here in Sydney our message has been a little diluted.

im glad you watched it and invested 45 minutes of your life. im sure you learned something but out of your pride you cannot accept it for what it was worth.

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mar bawai discussion in chicago
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2006, 01:26:32 AM »

Offline BroonitBeita

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mar bawai discussion in chicago
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2006, 01:28:33 AM »
lol

Offline BroonitBeita

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mar bawai discussion in chicago
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2006, 01:43:16 AM »
Quote
he never attacked anybody
i think you need t read the letters again, and then maybe one more time. i am not blind by pride. it seems that you are, as you do not accept the offensive words written by Mar Bawai, but rather call them criticism. there is a big difference criticism and attacking with words of hate.

Quote
here in Sydney our message has been a little diluted.
please explain how so?

why does he not acknowledge the fact that the Church is working on translating the Raza, rather he implies that this work is not happening, that it is opposed. why?

Offline BroonitBeita

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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2006, 01:53:01 AM »
Quote
well according to simple mathematics, thats about 88 priests a year on average...88 out of the thousands and thousands that are out there. you just showed me that even 1% is an overstatement...according to nothing else but your numbers.


heres some math for you, if you want to split hairs, thanks for you input.

Even before the calculation of an estimated percentage of all priests and deacons is attempted, the consistency of the findings in dioceses across the United States is remarkable: whether region, number of Catholic communicants or number of parishes is used to array the dioceses, the results show the allegations of sexual abuse have been made against 2.5% to 7% of diocesan priests. Similarly, whether religious priests are ranked by overall membership or clerical membership, the percent of priests in the community who have been accused ranges from 1% to 3%, or approximately half of that of the diocesan priests.
To estimate the percentage of all priests in ecclesiastical ministry between 1950 and 2002 who have been the subject of allegations requires a reliable overall total of priests in ministry during that time period. This calculation was done two different ways – first by using the data collected through the Diocesan and Religious Order Profiles, and then by using the estimates produced by the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate1. These different methods both yielded the same statistic: approximately 4% of Catholic priests and deacons in active ministry between 1950 and 2002 have been accused of the sexual abuse of a child under the age of 18.
Surveys for 90% of the priests and deacons reported to have had allegations of child sexual abuse included the year of ordination. If the yearly ordination totals for diocesan priests accused are compared to an overall number of diocesan priests ordained in that year, the percentages range from a maximum of almost 10% in 1970, decreasing to 8% in 1980 and to fewer than 4% in 1990.
These prevalence estimates alone do not describe the extent of the problem of sexual abuse. Another way to understand the extent of the problem is to ask how many incidents of sexual abuse were alleged to occur each year of the study period or, alternatively, to ask how many priests were accused in each year. This distribution of alleged abuse events over time shows the pattern of the reported sexual abuse. When the incidents recorded in the surveys are tallied for each year of occurrence (of each incident),the resulting figure shows that 75% of the events were alleged to occur between 1960 and 1984. When this result is considered together with the declining percentage of priests ordained in each year who have been accused of sexual abuse, it presents a more positive picture.

Offline BroonitBeita

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mar bawai discussion in chicago
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2006, 01:54:07 AM »
but the math is not what we are here to discuss, its the other issues. is it not?

Offline RadRides

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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2006, 02:28:15 AM »
does anyone have a copy of these elusive letters? :ban:

Offline BroonitBeita

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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2006, 02:43:01 AM »
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does anyone have a copy of these elusive letters?


i dont know bro, arent you at ground zero? dont you have a copy? havent you read them or heard them being read?

Offline RadRides

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« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2006, 02:48:33 AM »
Quote from: BroonitBeita
Quote
does anyone have a copy of these elusive letters?


i dont know bro, arent you at ground zero? dont you have a copy? havent you read them or heard them being read?


no, apparently Mar Dinkha has the copies of a private letter made public.  I don't think Mar Bawai would do such a horrible thing.  And yes, I do live in Ground Zero, Ca.  Won't you join us?  We could use a comedian with some pakha added to his repertoire.

Offline BroonitBeita

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« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2006, 02:51:14 AM »
Quote
We could use a comedian with some pakha added to his repertoire.

lol, thanks bro.

but what did i say that was so funny(or not)? i just asked if you had read them?

Offline Robert Khnanisho

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« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2006, 02:52:38 AM »
Quote from: RadRides
no, apparently Mar Dinkha has the copies of a private letter made public.


Is that the letter that was also translated into English and handed to his Lawyer aswell?

Offline RadRides

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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2006, 02:54:48 AM »
Apparently we all know what letters we are each talking about, yet we have never read them!  So what's the point of arguing?

BroonetBeita, I find you hilarious, that's all.

Offline BroonitBeita

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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2006, 02:57:03 AM »
thanks bro, ill take that as a compliment.

your not bad yourself. i think we would really get along, even though we are on opposite sides of the fence

Offline Robert Khnanisho

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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2006, 03:00:54 AM »
Rad azizzi are they the ones that are on marbawai.com?

Offline RadRides

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« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2006, 03:02:58 AM »
Quote from: Robert Khnanisho
Rad azizzi are they the ones that are on marbawai.com?


no.  they are the actual letters mar bawai wrote to mar dinkha.  they were private letters written to him as constructive criticism.  those letters were then copied and handed out to clergy in chicago and others.

Offline RadRides

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« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2006, 03:04:11 AM »
Quote from: BroonitBeita
thanks bro, ill take that as a compliment.

your not bad yourself. i think we would really get along, even though we are on opposite sides of the fence


I think you have it wrong about a lot of us.  But thank you though.

Offline BroonitBeita

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« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2006, 03:04:56 AM »
Quote
Rad azizzi are they the ones that are on marbawai.com?


nah, i dont think that website has them for some strange reason.

Offline Robert Khnanisho

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« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2006, 03:05:03 AM »
Oh the ones Mar Narsai read out in the DVD?

Offline RadRides

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« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2006, 03:06:06 AM »
Quote from: BroonitBeita
Quote
Rad azizzi are they the ones that are on marbawai.com?


nah, i dont think that website has them for some strange reason.


ahh, whats that supposed to mean?  why would peter have them?  talk to the faithful in chicago, i am sure one of them has a copy.

Offline BroonitBeita

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« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2006, 03:06:23 AM »
Quote
I think you have it wrong about a lot of us. But thank you though.


what makes you say that?

what do you think i think about you?

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« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2006, 03:06:39 AM »
Quote from: Robert Khnanisho
Oh the ones Mar Narsai read out in the DVD?


haha there's a dvd!?  is it nominated for an oscar?

Offline BroonitBeita

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« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2006, 03:08:44 AM »
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haha there's a dvd!? is it nominated for an oscar?


come on bro, dont you ask the public to watch Mar Bawai's speeches???

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« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2006, 03:08:56 AM »
Rad could you please answer me with a bit of maturity all I'm trying to do is get answers. Don't play games with me because I don't play games.

Offline BroonitBeita

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« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2006, 03:10:39 AM »
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haha there's a dvd!? is it nominated for an oscar?


yeah, it was. Best expose. lol

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« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2006, 03:10:42 AM »
Quote from: Robert Khnanisho
Rad could you please answer me with a bit of maturity all I'm trying to do is get answers. Don't play games with me because I don't play games.


I am sorry.  If that has been the only immature offense on my part, then I apologize.  It surprised me there would be a DVD.  And I never said don't watch their videos.  You tend to take bits and pieces and exaggerate.  Typical.

Offline Robert Khnanisho

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« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2006, 03:16:24 AM »
Quote from: RadRides
I am sorry.  If that has been the only immature offense on my part, then I apologize.  It surprised me there would be a DVD.  And I never said don't watch their videos.  You tend to take bits and pieces and exaggerate.  Typical.


Who said that you did say that?

And Typical of who, Me?

Offline BroonitBeita

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« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2006, 03:16:51 AM »
no. me

Offline sydneydude

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« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2006, 03:32:34 AM »
hey broona,

thanks for posting that whole website...you gave me a statistic and i worked it out...so its 6% according to that source...ok so let it be 6%. remember that 100% of those priests are sinners, just like 100% of our Church and everybody else.

the level of corruption in our Church is greater than 6%, i assure  you that. its probably around 60%.

thanks for extending this discussion by the way. since our exchanges we've had about 100 people watch the video clip (webstats on my end i can show you in private if you want proof)...you seem to be the only one complaining...now thats about, 1% of the viewers...am i right ??

Offline Robert Khnanisho

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« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2006, 03:39:00 AM »
No your absoloutley right,
but do your stats show if they watched the whole thing?
or just if they have visited the site?

Offline BroonitBeita

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« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2006, 03:57:25 AM »
Quote
ok so let it be 6%

ok then, point proven. thanks


Quote

thanks for extending this discussion by the way. since our exchanges we've had about 100 people watch the video clip (webstats on my end i can show you in private if you want proof)...you seem to be the only one complaining...now thats about, 1% of the viewers...am i right ??


no problem. it has been my pleasure actually. if i was afraid of people watching this video then i wouldnt have replied. let the people hear these contradictory and hollow words.

in response to your proof of people watching, thanks but no thanks. i would prefer people to watch and hear. thats why i watch. yet am still not swayed, rather even further convinced of the position of the majority.

Quote
you seem to be the only one complaining...now thats about, 1% of the viewers...am i right ??

now this seems more mathematically accurate. yes i agree, that would equate to one percent. but your other figures were out of whack. thanks for the admission and correction.

 

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